Cameras Don't Lie: 9mm vs .45 ACP. Did the "suspects" who had 9mm rounds bounce off of them happen to be wearing red underwear and a big "S" on their chest. It kills everything else. 9mm vs 45 ACP for Home Defense. If I’m going with a traditional hollow point, give me .45 ACP Federal HST +P at 950 FPS. what do you expect from them? If you don't currently write articles professionally, you should consider doing so. Thanks for bringing our gun culture forward... Cody! This is a debate that will go on as long as there are those who don't want to accept the laws of physics. I've owned & fired both repeatable over the years. If the attacker turns and runs, that’s a good outcome, but if the attacker is killed in lawful self-defense, that’s a consequence the attacker assumed when starting the aggressive behavior. This, unfortunately takes time to accomplish. Somethig to the discuters, even for an author. He didn't make it and when they found the round it was in his neck. The subcompact 9mm, is an ideal carry gun but it's lighter weight makes recoil control difficult. They are equally comfortable to carry and to shoot. No way in hell can the 9mm possibly ever match the .45, or even the .40 S&W, at stopping people. ERIC! From the days of the trusty Colt M1911 to modern .45 caliber handguns like the Glock G21 and the Sig Sauer P220, the .45 ACP has always been one of the most reliable calibers on the market. Been a G19 fanboy a long time, just got my first 1911 and It feels way better in my hand. It’s not about practice - it’s all about the situation they’re in. I have shot drywall and 2 inch plywood and have gotten little penetration from 5 yds with a Smith and Wesson 645. white box Winchester was the ammo.. Ultimately, both guns are great weapons to have. Most ATTACKERS will not realize the difference of being Hit with either bullet!! I have always heard greater mass can cause over penetration, and certainly fast and heavy bullets go through people. This should bring a target down. Any high penetration rounds for handguns beyond fmj are usually considered as "armor piercing" and therefore illegal in the us. This is the true reasons behind the FBI changing back to the 9mm. The 9mm pistol is the best gun for self defense. Thats what I carry now.Always will.When that loud bitch goes off it gets everyones attention..especially the turd youre trying to ghost. Second, our judges demand, that each shot has to be beforethought = you can shoot perp once and then you have to evaluate, if he stoped his attack. The first one is indirect evidence. 9mm wins. 3. Then the news says the perp was taken to hospital with life threatening injuries. Unlike in a home defense situation, the ability to shoot through a wall, automobile, or various other objects in a combat scenario can be the difference between life and death. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Please try again. If you looking for a slugger for something like car defense or home defense. I want harm for nobody, and especially me and mine, too. Shotguns, rifles, pistols...he's been collecting them all for over a decade. The domestic manufacture of war material was not remotely able to resupply the entire UK armed forces. I prefer to carry a 45acp because it rips arms off bodies and a 12 gauge in the house. The law enforcement and military need that exact type of round and the 9mm is the perfect gun for those situations. Again, velocity and mass both increase accuracy, but mass seems to get us there more quickly just as we see with penetration, while velocity appears to build energy more quickly. I couldn't decide, so I bought (built actually)...BOTH! I don't think a ATTACKER/HOME INVADER will know the difference between a 9mm or a 45cal to the HEAD, NECK or a double tap in the CHEST!! Going to the store I take my 9 with 124 gr hst. LEOs average 20-30% hits in a gunfight. There are many good rounds for the G19 for social work. It doesnât get any smaller. 4 Types Of Handgun Shooters — Which Are You? Now that being said the 9mm has its place in a high performance situation. It’s essentially a 9mm magnum. Speed, power & high capacity.... Hope I was some help.... Not a lick of science in this article. So I agree with having both. or 44 Mag. Caliber Facts. The FBI and the army’s surgeon General have done extensive data gathering. Thanks for the article, and for the mature comments. Many handgun enthusiasts believe that bigger is, in fact, better and love everything that the .45 ACP has to offer. One of the biggest I've seen taken was 465lb. Shot placement will be your main concern with any bear. The 45 has more cons than it does pro's, specially with modern day guns. If I did, I would either aviod the area or take a rifle. I'm Geezer who's first shot was with a 45 while in the Navy in the 70's. When I'm in the woods I use .45 cast. Most ATTACKERS even if not mortally wounded will address thier WOUND TRY to save THIER LIFE & not get SHOT Again!! In the old days cowboys put 5 rounds in their 6 shooter and money in the last chamber to be used to bury them. I started shooting at age 8 I am now 64, aferter seeing many debates on this topic, here is my own opinion the best pistol or rifle for self defense is the one that you can shoot the best. Certainly this is easy to understand with the .44 Magnum because it's increased velocity and mass produces essentially twice that of 9mm, but you can't say that about the other calibers. As will pretty much anything under #4 buckshot. cookbook . Killing the BODY "in this world" is MORE than Sufficient. With a good modern defensive ammo, the 9mm is just as powerful as any .45, just in different ways. Many say that it is all about round placement, true, but I have seen .45 rounds place in none critical areas and still knock the person off theor feet. I had one patient shot 11 times with what looked like a .380 or 9mm, hard to tell on xray. It doesn't event if you're a beginner or an expert, as everyone can benefit from learning how to use our optical equipment! Maybe alternate .45 hollow point and hot buffalo bore or extreme penetrator (best of both worlds). Mass is an important factor! When comparing the two handguns, it’s important to note that the 9mm hasn’t become better than the .45 ACP…it just caught up to it. I say different tools for different tasks. My dream gun has always been a 1911 in 45 cal but after watching the video I'm on the fence again. And even if the air or blood supply is cut off, a person can still function for long enough to continue an attack and kill a victim. Whatever works for *YOU* is the best choice. It can significantly increase damage in rifle bullet wounds. Even on the Eastern front, a large part of how the USSR was able to keep fighting was because of American lend-lease. Did four years of our fighting? In fact, unlike the other calibers in this study, over half of the 9mm rounds from the 1800 bodies involved in shootings were FMJ. Full sized .45 or .50 for when you really mean 'permanent' and final business and .300 BLK fmj rounds through a sbr (I know, tsk, tsk) or tactical pistola for 1200-1300 fps during a full blown war or zombie apocalypse! Departments around the country, in their never ending effort to do more with less, don’t allow for practice hardly at all anymore. If you're a professional you should hit what your shooting at, or don't carry. Campbell points out that gelatin blocks are not human and that humans are much more complex and react differently than an inanimate, unmotivated blob of jelly. Statistically this is a dead heat and well within any reasonable margin of error; but remember, the 9mm and .45 ACP wound channels are essentially the same in size, so what is the difference? I do exactly as you stated, we think alike. Practice both bullseye and tactical shooting skills. With boxes of 9mm Luger rounds being 30 to 40% cheaper than .45 ACP ammo, increased range time isn’t going to break your budget; and after all, spending more time on the range does make you a better marksman. This debate of 9 versus 45 just comes down to personal choice with today's ammo. I had thousands .45 230 grains hardball and some +Ps hallow points with my standard 1911 when I tested my friend's full size 9mm. The reason why these calibers don't do any better is that they are more likely to over penetrate (thus doing less energy as much of the bullet's energy is released outside the body). But Campbell is rational and not married to the .45 ACP just because of tradition. .380 ACP, 9mm, and .40 S&W are all within the margin of error, but .357 SIG, .45 ACP, and .44 Magnum are not, and they are all heavier and/or faster on average. As if the 9mm is the only benefactor of "ammo advancement", well, I also have the awesome 460 Rowland which overlaps 44 Magnum power levels in a 13 round Glock 21 magazine. Some people carry a 124gr for summer and 147gr in cold climates where the BG might be wearing a Carhartt over sweaters, etc. Lend-lease conditions were allegedly exorbitant but the US manufacturing base was undeniably a godsend), plus some of the other margins you refer to were, frankly, too close to argue, so I won’t even try. Actually, we ALL have a soul, but only TRUE Christians (born again believers) have a spirit. Outstanding. 1) by making bigger holes and 2) by making more holes. That's a big difference, and could be the difference between a heart shot and a lung shot. This is not about the merits of, say, 9mm vs .40, or .45 ACP vs 10mm. I think there was a fundamental mistake about over penetration in this article. 2. The history they told me was that the military originally was using a 38 something or other, but some weird fanatical types just kept coming at them in one of our many obscure little wars. For mid-sized pistols I like .40 S&W which tends to cut the difference in capacity, ammunition cost, projectile mass, and muzzle velocity between 9mm and .45 pretty nicely. NYPD study had their officers at 18% accuracy in gunfights. I do like shooting the .45acp But a 1911 commander as much as I love it, is harder to fit in my pocket. I live in less free country, I still can carry my pistol, but EU wants to limit my magazines (blah blah blah). I would love to hear everyone's thoughts. Check out our beginners guns video course. I do take into consideration penetration behind what I am aiming at with the 9mm because of over penetration, but you must ALWAYS be aware of what is behind the perp. Either one will do the Trick unless it happens to be a VERY RARE ATTACKER who has a super tolerance for pain & Blood loss or is on some kind of super man DRUG!! Don't be scared but owning a gun is a responsibility. Here we go agin, 9mm vrs 45, .357 SIG has the fastest velocity by far, but is in the middle of the pack with .40 S&W. If you have to reassess after every shot, then that first shot needs to count. Only because it's easier to hide. This will eliminate the threat on fewer rounds. The point that the wound tracks are almost the same according to the 2014 report is very surprising to me and frankly illogical looking at the bullet size, both uncollapsed and collapsed. I agree with what the majority of old veterans say. Aside from that, aren't they using the same bullet technology on .45 as they are on 9mm? Most of my practice is at 10 yards, I do vary 10 feet to 20 yards. My grandfather gave it to me back in the early 1990s before he died. I would have to say that for me I am more accurate with a .45 acp then a 9mm but that may be because the 1911 is a better fit for me and feels better balanced then a polymer 9mm. I consistently place the 45 rounds in an 8" area. That’s where the .357 SIG comes into play. lbs. You have to live, or die, by your choice. Let us also clarify that we are discussing the merits of heavier or lighter grain weights for the same caliber, such as 115 gr vs 147 gr 9mm. However neither caliber is magical, as some may believe. The report indicated that the new powders and more advanced bullet designs used in current 9mm defensive loads allowed for the caliber to deliver almost similar performance to other calibers, like the .45 ACP, and .40 S&W. 9mm: having more range, muzzle velocity, more accuracy(depending on the professionalism of the shooter), less recoil, a smaller cal(meaning the gun will have more capacity) and more penetration(Depending on the grain). Does anybody have one of these that can state how their carrying experience has been? Bullets which strike the human body, yet do not hit the Central Nervous System rely upon blood loss to drop blood pressure and cause incapacitation. Yet, many who carry a handgun as part of their job choose to use other handgun cartridges, such as the .40 S&W and 9mm Parabellum. I offer two pieces of evidence to support my notion that .45 ACP penetrates slightly more on average. They are often shooting at moving targets who may be taking cover and at the same time the officers are trying to take cover and not get shot themselves (this isn't range shooting). A key point in choosing self-defense ammo is its ability to quickly neutralize a threat. In short, we ALL live for ever: the only question is WHERE? Considering that ballistics and expansion have increased for all calibers I like the 45 . I agree with the .45 recoil being overblown. Privacy Policy and But, sorting the good from the bad can be a pretty overwhelming task. Both rounds are more than enough to put a guy down. I have pistols chambered in .22lr, 9mm Luger, .40 S7W, 357 SIG, and .45 ACP. However the 9mm is much faster. I do just like the author says. Center mass Shot placement. Also, for you suppressor enthusiasts out there, the .45 ACP is an inherently subsonic bullet. Even the FBI has phased out their .40 S&W sidearm in favor of the 9mm’s improved stopping power and penetration. And while the years of development have been good for the 9mm, R&D hasnât stopped on the .45ACP. 10 Best Online Gun Stores [2021]: New & Used, SHOT Show 2021 Highlights: Our Favorite Virtual Guns & Gear, 6 Best AR-15 Pistols [2021 Complete & Build List], 9 Best AR-15s: Ultimate Guide [2021 Hands-On], 6 Best AR-15 Flashlights [2021 Real Views], 18 Best Gun Safes for Pistols & Long Guns [All Budgets]. That’s the movies, and it’s Hollywood, where fantasy reigns. The .357 SIG Liberty does it with its rifle like speeds dumping its energy immediately on target and making temporary wound cavity matter. That is simply bologne. It's about energy. But barrier's and body armor slows 45's down to BB gun effectiveness! You need fewer rounds to do the job so you don’t get excessive force charge , so that rules out the capacity as being a decision factor in the debate . I don’t understand why a situation in a street would be different than at home. Many shooters like to have the .45 ACP for home defense. https://guninstructor.net/Strasborg_Tests.pdf There is no perfect handgun, life always has compromises. I can’t see the situation where I would have to return fire on someone standing 25 yards away and where I would initiate shooting against someone at that distance. :), Here's an old lady's take on it: the best gun/caliber is what YOU shoot best. But, because they get less than 12" of penetration in ballistic gel, they are not tested. Need more.? Later on in life I started to practice shooting again and worked with many different calibers. https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2017/03/9mm-40-45-acp-stopping-power/ The results are as follows: .380 ACP (217 ft. So, .40 S&W has more felt recoil, no matter what. At such a distance a 45 round would be a lot more effective than a 9. But no more. I have my shooting partner tell me which to shoot. Let’s take a look at the selling points of each one to help you decide. When using high-quality ammo at short range, the .45 is undoubtedly one of the best semi-auto handgun cartridges out there. As you can see with .357 SIG, which has greater velocity and mass than .45 ACP, it still penetrates less. What I am talking about is getting your front sight back on target after taking a shot. I use Hornady critical defense in both caliber. (Pew Pew Eric) Keep the awesome info coming, I love your emails and love your site! The .45 is bigger, but not that much bigger. If you like the idea of shooting a gun with a lot of stopping power…you’re not alone. Yes, 45ACP with defensive loads and .40 S&W with defensive loads do more terminal damage than 9mm with defensive loads. It has a capacity of 15+1 and it's a 45 ACP. you make me laugh. Both handguns have a huge following thanks to their popularity and success in the field. There is no way everyone is going to agree on this, so the debate continues. I'm removing that link since it looks like it was redirected. It is a dangerous world, much more than most believe. New powders and more advanced bullet designs used only work for the 9mm not 45 acp or 40 S&W? Editor's Notes: The article originally appeared in the September 17 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php Force is mass times acceleration squared. Where do I stand on the 9mm vs .45ACP debate? Well, this might rock your world but I’d recommend getting one of each. Because according to BBTI, out of 10 different 9mm rounds tested, only one round, the Cor Bon 115 gr JHP +P, managed to make 500 foot lb in a 6" barrel. I’m sure this is going to spark plenty of debate, so please feel free to let me know how you feel in the comments. Thatâs a 33% better chance at stopping a violent attacker with a 9mm vs. a .45. 9mm in the field just makes sense, for all the reasons Eric lists plus those of you fine, well informed readers. An unmoving target is pretty easy to hit again if needed. 9mm vs .40 vs .45 For the sake of comparison, these are all Speer Gold Dot hollow-point rounds (from left to right): the 124-grain 9mm, 180-grain .40 S&W and 230-grain .45 ACP. Yea! Now to the .45 issue: one patient was shot in the back of the leg with a .45 hydro shock round mid way up the leg which lodged in the back of the knee. But it's like buying a vehicle, or picking out a new bass as far as there are pros and cons to each one. My 2 primary guns are a Canik TP9SA 19 shot 9mm and a 7 shot Taurus TRACKER 357magnum. The one thing I never see mentioned about the .45 acp is that because it's a slower round and over penetration issues drop dramatically it, FMJ is still a very good SD/HD ammo. How can the 9mm "have the same wound tracks as a .45 ACP" when the .45 expands to an inch diameter? The best bullet will fail, if shot placement is poor. Please inform. Varmint applies to large game too.. Ha, Ha, Ha. The true stopping power goes to the 45 acp (I.e. If you, as an individual, can put in the training required to fully leverage 40S&W or 45acp then it can be a great choice for personal defense. You fire at the armed person/s and take down the threat. Still, if someone breaks in the house I keep a .45 S&W revolver next to the bed. The disagreement about what’s the best handgun cartridge for self-defense never seems to end, and it probably never will until someone invents a handgun that will always stop a felonious assault immediately. We’ve built dozens of AR’s and we’ll cover all the best AR-15 upgrades such as handguards, triggers, BCGs, gas blocks, and more. Again, I am not claiming anything is conclusive, but what I can say is that it does not appear that lighter faster bullets appear to penetrate more. In a self-defense scenario, you're using your firearm because if you don't, you or a loved one will be harmed. I myself started out carrying a 22.lr handgun because it was what I shot since I was a kid. . If I am going mowing in bear country, my 1911A1 and eight FMJS are with me in case God forbid a bear attack.s. I’ll take the big 45 any day. Anyone else think the same thing? So I purchased big bore gun :D and hope for rapid blood pressure drop which will cause unconsciousness, or that this bullet will go trought and break spine. Or does it take a .500 Smith? American lend-lease foodstuffs accounted for over 10% of Britain's over-all food supply during the war. It could be that when hollow points fail, 9mm isn't going deep enough, and perhaps the FMJ's don't overpenetrate in this caliber as much as others (especially because the most popular FMJ rounds are usually lighter 115 grain bullets). I am pretty much in agreement with the author, GET BOTH! Lousy ass training and poor shooting skills of theor agents. For HD, I have a 12gauge but my G19 is fine. One type of ammo in both guns makes things easier. But do please keep up the good work with the site - from a country where only the police are allowed handguns, it’s like a window on the free world. pros y contras, el 9mm. To say that the 9mm is justbas oowerful than the .44, is totslly nonsense. And the proof he show. Unfortunately, only FMJ can be used in either 9mm or .45 ACP. This begs the question: is bigger necessarily better? A lighter round traveling faster than a heavy round, if the difference is substantial enough, will carry similar energy. My 45ACP at 12 rounds was well on the way to chewing it apart. Why not buy a double stack 1911, like my ParaOrdnance p14-45? A picture is worth a 1000 words…new self-defense 9mm ammo opens up to create some nasty possible wound channels to stop attackers in their tracks. However I don't really feel the average .45acp has that much more recoil "if any more" than a hot 9mm round. As a Patrol Officer I have seen both in action in the real world, not the bull crap settings of a test range. Not to say they didn't die on the street, but once they made it to surgery they survived. For the elderly, the recoil of the standard 1911 45 is lesser because of its weight. However breaking the use of the bullet is to protect yourself. However, I have to admit you’re way ahead of us with the second amendment! Two were head shots. He didn't even have a BRUISE where the 45cal bullet hit him!! lbs. Then again, if penetration through a bedroom door, heavy jacket, glass, etc your .45 won't make it to the target, so much to think about! Please take immediate action to change this link and ensure no other articles on Pew Pew Tactical contain links to that dishonest propaganda site. Its not about hitting something or someone behind the assailant, it's about hitting something through the wall and the garden fence behind the assailant. FBI dropped 0.40 not because 9mm comes even close to it ... just affirmative action that's all it is. One of the main reasons why military personnel and many LEOs made the switch to 9mm handguns was because of the deeper bullet penetration. During my ammo testing and subsequent measuring, Iâve shot plenty of .45 ACP self-defense ammunition into ⦠In that case consider a 10mm or .357 magnum (better get a .44 magnum) depending on how big the bears are. There is a difference between an LEO and a civilian. My first thought is: .45 is better because it's bigger. Get Our Top Shooting Drills and Zeroing Targets ($47 value - but FREE for a limited time). However, I am getting an M&P9 2.0 for my daily carry. The U.S. Navy was the last branch of service to go to the 9mm. Caliber Facts. As a civilian I shouldn’t find myself in a situation in the street to have to shoot into cars and where I live by code all exterior walls are concrete. = 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. Now when you factor in shootability, cost, and capacity you can make an argument that the 9mm is the better round but it is NOT as effective as a 45 when it comes to terminal ballistics. It’s not real life. I have both, I have practiced more with the 45 ACP. Next, speed of follow-up shots doesn't come from the caliber. TB. Even though this is supposed to be an excellent round, with great expansion in gelatin, this bullet had almost zero expansion. I'm carrying a 45, and it was because of the lesser penetration that I decided on it. Listen--great article but here are thedsalient poinyts. We can hit a moving target at 75 yards away. If you're afraid of what's behind your target you shouldn't be shooting in the first place. With a .45 you can hit him anywhere, even in the arm or shoulder, and you're going to knock him down. It is also popular for self-defense. If you can hit with one and allways misswith the others , I think I would chose the one you can make the most hits with, just from my own exsperance , I had some mild steel targets out at my home we used to shoot at all day and almost every day with .38 spl, And 9 mm, then I bought a kimber1911 Can't go wrong with that. Because 99% of people will never fight off a coyote attack let alone see a wolf and if your wandering into areas with wolves carrying a 9mm your pretty stupid as those places also have bears who aren't going to be impressed with the latest plastic fantastic. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjW3I71693mAhVGZM0KHXzxCngQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw10DVrk4SswQsgAgCh-Cf28 Bullet tech has come a long way for the .45 also.. ya ever seen the hole a .230 grain HST makes?..960 dia. Commonly known as the 9mm short, this round has virtually the same bullet diameter as the traditional 9mm bullet. First mag size for home or personal defense holds no water! My 45 acp has a muzzle velosity of 1000 fps 510 foot lbs. I don't want to carry anything bigger. In a gunfight, the least acceptable hit percentage is 60% and less than 80% should be frowned upon, strongly. What is the best Hollow Points for a Glock 19? The main drawback is the 8 round magazine (WC). Modern .45 acp is overkill against most targets (which isn't a bad thing in itself, but better to have the extra capacity if you don't really have to trade a significant reduction in lethality for it). And speaking of comments…we had some fun with this video…. Energy is a square of velocity. 1. Others think 9mm trumps all or the .40 caliber has its own merits. Get the 74th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. Don't know about explode, but a good hollow point will EXPAND. I had never thought about all this before the day that an Iraq veteran, who loves hunting, told me “use a BB gun to shoot rats in your backyard and carry a large magnum as a backup against a hog charging against you...”. Here are some of the advantages that the 9mm has over the .45 ACP: The 9mm also has a higher muzzle velocity than the .45 ACP because it uses lighter bullets.
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